Thursday, October 22, 2009

Update: Saudi Princess Who Had An Illegitimate Child With British Lover Granted Asylum In The UK

Merriam-Webster's Dictionary entry for tabloid: "a tabloid is of, relating to, or resembling tabloids; especially featuring stories of violence, crime, or scandal presented in a sensational manner."

Keeping that in mind, this Telegraph news article appeared to use stoning and flogging to further sensationalize the Princess's story. I found the Jewish lover bit to be unnecessary and could have been meant to inflame Muslim sentiments...as if they are trying to say that its bad enough she had an affair with a non-Muslim but did he have to be Jewish?!

Note the inconsistency in both the Telegraph's report and that of the Princess's alleged fears of her and her baby daughter being flogged and stoned. It would be essential for me to point out the difference in the punishments; lashing is for fornicators (not married) and stoning is for adulterers (married). Both are referred to as zina in Arabic. Additionally, her baby would never be held accountable for her sins! Islamic references are given at the end of the article.

THE SECRET DIARY OF THE SAUDI PRINCESS WHO WOULD BE STONED TO DEATH IF SHE RETURNED HOME
By Ian Gallagher and Amanda Perthen
4 October 2009
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1217959/The-secret-diary-Saudi-princess-stoned-death-returned-home.html


On the surface, it resembles a fairy tale. A beautiful young princess is forced to marry a wicked old nobleman but falls in love with a handsome boy her own age, secretly bears his child, then goes into hiding – lest she falls into the clutches of her husband, who vows to execute her for adultery. It sounds improbable, but this, in essence, was the story a Saudi princess told one winter morning last year in the unprepossessing surroundings of the Asylum and Immigration Tribunal at Hatton Cross, near Heathrow Airport.

The princess, who we cannot name for legal reasons, said she was convinced that she and her daughter, whose father is British and once worked at Harrods, would be flogged or stoned to death if forced to return home to Jeddah. Dealing on a daily basis with desperate immigrants from all corners of the globe, the tribunal has no doubt heard many a tall tale, and the woman’s testimony was nothing if not melodramatic. Yet it was a story the judge was prepared to accept. It is redolent of the 1980 television drama-documentary Death Of A Princess, based on the true story of the public execution of a Saudi princess and her adulterous lover, and it is easy to see how the parallels would play upon the minds of those involved in the tribunal.

The judge’s decision to grant her asylum in Britain – she had previously been turned down – only came to light in July along with some sketchy details and speculation about the implications for Anglo-Saudi relations.

Now, an investigation by The Mail on Sunday has uncovered the full story behind the princess’s extraordinary predicament and her desperate efforts to conceal the birth of her child, including an ill-conceived plot to pass off the baby as the daughter of a friend and spirit her to the United States.


Much of her story is revealed in her compelling witness statement, leaked to this newspaper. In it, the princess says she fears she is being hunted across London by both her husband and her father, whom she names, and whose honour, she says, her actions have compromised.She also expresses distrust of the British Government and concern that officials might betray her whereabouts. ‘I feared the Home Office would give my details to my husband and my life would be in immediate danger,’ she says in her account.

The sensitivity of the situation and its potential to cause diplomatic tension cannot be overstated. It is worth noting that the political fallout from the screening of Death Of A Princess was devastating and resulted in a request that Britain withdraw its ambassador to Jeddah. As the princess herself says in her statement: ‘I am aware that Saudi Arabia is an important business partner of the UK. I am also aware of the power of my husband’s family and also my father in such business dealings. 'I was very concerned that my situation could become compromised.’

Born in Jeddah, the princess ‘had an Islamic education’ at first. Then, in common with the children of many wealthy Saudi families, she was sent to a Western school, but taken out after only two years when it was decided she should marry a senior member of the Saudi royal family.At the time of the wedding, she was still in her early teens, while her husband had already reached old age. The marriage was arranged by my father, who is a close friend to the royal family, and my marriage was a symbol of their friendship – according to custom, I was a gift,’ she says in the statement. ‘In my previous asylum statement and interview, I declined to mention my husband’s name as I thought I had already brought too much shame to him and his family and did not wish to embarrass him, his family or my family further. ‘Moreover, I have received information from third parties that if his name is revealed in any way relating to this case, I and family members who have helped me in Saudi Arabia would be in serious danger – particularly my mother. All members of my family have been banned from talking to me, contacting me, helping me in any way.’


One of several wives, she says she was ‘used for show’ and that the marriage was ‘designed to ensure unity between my own and my husband’s family’. She adds: ‘The marriage was never consummated and I remained a virgin. Due to his age, his medical conditions and the wishes of his other wives, my husband rarely slept in the same room as me.’

It must have been a dispiriting existence but one lifted by frequent visits to London, which she regarded as her ‘second home’. It was on one such trip, while shopping with her maid in Harrods, that she met the man who would father her daughter. ‘He approached me and we chatted for some time before he asked for my phone number,’ she recalls in her statement. ‘He was a good-looking man (I did not hesitate to give him my number). He wished to keep in touch with me. ‘At that time, my bodyguard and driver were waiting for me outside Harrods. As there are strict restrictions in Muslim and Saudi culture, it was common at that time [and still is] for couples to meet in shopping centres and to exchange numbers in this manner.’

They developed a phone relationship – ‘we would talk as if we had known each other since childhood’ – and managed one more clandestine meeting in Harrods before the princess returned home.No sooner was she back than she persuaded her husband that she needed to return to London for medical reasons.

He acquiesced, and her relationship with the man, a Harrods employee, then became physical, quickly resulting in her pregnancy. The situation was understandably grave. To add a further complication, as if one were needed, her lover was Jewish.


The princess recalls in her statement that she learned of her pregnancy only when she suffered morning sickness and, at first, confided in only her personal servants. At a later stage, she confessed to her mother, now her closest ally. To this day, she continues secretly to fund the princess’s life in London with money sent by Western Union.

‘I wanted to have an abortion so that I could continue to lead a normal life with my family, but this was not possible in Saudi Arabia,’ recalls the princess. 'However, she was able to hide her pregnancy by wearing a loose-fitting head-to-toe abaya cloak.‘I also wore the abaya while sleeping at night,’ she says. ‘This is common practice for Saudi women. ‘As my husband and I never slept together, it was easy to hide my growing body from him. In addition, my bump was very small and I didn’t gain much excess weight.’ As the pregnancy neared full-term, the princess convinced her husband once again that she needed to visit Britain for medical reasons.

It was during this stay that she gave birth to her child in a London hospital.Any elation she experienced at holding her daughter for the first time was quickly overtaken by panic and confusion. At the time, she felt she had little choice but to give up the baby for adoption. Before anything could be resolved, she had to fly back to Saudi Arabia. She left the baby with a female friend.

‘However, once I returned, I realised that my husband had suspicions about me,’ she says. Fearing for her life, she boarded a plane to London and has never been back to Jeddah since. She says that ‘my main priority was to find a safe place for my daughter and to ensure that she is not the subject of harm’. The address the princess supplied to the tribunal is an elegantly appointed basement flat in a mansion block in one of the most fashionable districts of West London. Land Registry records confirm that she bought it.

When The Mail on Sunday visited the address, we were told she no longer lived there. For a while, she rented a flat on the first floor of the same block, but she now lives in another part of London. Last week, a former neighbour, who knows the princess’s whereabouts, recalled how she confided in him, revealing how her distress at the time of the pregnancy was compounded when she was abandoned by her lover. ‘She wanted to marry him but unfortunately he disappeared off the scene,’ says the neighbour. ‘She was left to bring up her daughter on her own.’ The neighbour was left in no doubt that her fears were genuine.



But while the Saudi Embassy in London has declined to comment publicly on the case, diplomatic sources have suggested, enigmatically, that the princess ‘may not be all she seems’. It must also be said that, initially at least, she was denied asylum after the Home Office uncovered ‘inconsistencies’ in her story. The Mail on Sunday has discovered that she falsified her daughter’s birth certificate, stating on it that the girl’s father was an American and that the mother was her Yemeni friend. The address given for the couple is in a square in Bayswater, West London. A woman now living in the block says she could not recall the Yemeni woman or her American partner, but did remember the princess living there with her newborn baby, who is now aged eight.


In her statement, the princess admits she lied on the birth certificate but did so to protect her daughter. ‘In desperation, I asked my friend to take my daughter to the US with her American husband and to treat my daughter as her own,’ she says. The scheme failed when American authorities discovered from DNA and blood samples that the supposed mother was not related to the child.  Why these samples were requested is not clear. But an immigration source familiar with the case said that at one stage both US Immigration and Customs Enforcement and the FBI became involved, and expressed concern about the Yemeni’s story.


US records reveal that her wedding to an American from Cleveland, Ohio, took place at a mosque in Las Vegas – two weeks after the princess’s baby was born.  The man’s family explained that he served in the elite Special Forces, America’s equivalent of the SAS, before becoming a private security consultant in Iraq. In April 2004, he died at the age of 32 when his convoy was hit by rocket-propelled grenades and set ablaze in a notorious atrocity in which three other Americans were also killed. A frenzied mob dragged their bodies through the streets of Fallujah and hanged two of them from a bridge.


Curiously, his mother told us she had never heard of the Yemeni woman and was mystified when told of a wedding certificate bearing their names. ‘My son wasn’t married. I would have known if he’d had a wife. I was in touch with him every other day,’ she says. ‘He died a single man and as a man of the Catholic faith. He would never have gotten married in a mosque. Someone must have stolen his identity.’ The Mail on Sunday tried to locate the princess’s Yemeni friend but could find no trace of her in the UK or the US. Following the wedding, there was just one mention of her in public records, when she listed her address as a rented flat in a building in a rundown area of New York. The flat is now occupied by an Indian couple who do not speak English. No one else in the building recognised her name last week.


Despite the unresolved questions about her account, however, the princess was granted asylum after she testified that she lied to protect herself and her daughter.‘This is the main reason why I did not include my name on my daughter’s birth certificate. It would give a clear link to where I am living,’ she says. ‘Since coming to the UK, I have not left the country and have had to persevere with my emotional stresses, most importantly, worrying about what will happen to my daughter and me.’



And she admits: ‘I had been used to a very high standard of living in which almost every part of my life was managed by others. 'It was a great shock to adjust to managing my own life and being responsible for my daughter. It has been a very lonely period of readjustment, particularly in the knowledge of the stress I have caused to my family in Saudi Arabia.’ She says she is supported by her mother who is ‘sympathetic to my problem. My father is a very strict man and hence my mother always fears his actions.‘If I return to Saudi Arabia, my daughter and I will be subject to capital punishment under sharia law. 'In addition, my husband or my father will definitely make sure that we receive the full sharia law punishment, which will include flogging and stoning to death, execution or some other form of honour killing. This is my greatest worry and the cause of my depression. ‘I realise that I have made a mistake but the punishment is so severe and inevitable that I have had no option but to hide in the UK.’

-----End of Telegraph article-----

1. Excerpt from the book, "Summary of Islamic Jurisprudence" by Dr. Salih Al-Fawzan. He is a professor of Islamic Jurisprudence (fiqh), member of the Board of Senior Ulema and also a member of the Permanent Committee for Fatwa and Research in Saudi Arabia.

In the chapter on Prescribed Punishments For Zina, he writes that, "If a legally accountable free person commits fornication while he/she is not in a state of ihsan (i.e. not married or previously married), he/she is to be lashed a hundred lashes, as Allah, Exalted be He, says: 'The [unmarried] woman or [unmarried] man found guilty of sexual intercourse - lash each one of them a hundred lashes...' (Soorat An-Nur 24:2). Thus, the prescribed punishment for adultery, which is stoning to death, is inapplicable in case of fornication, when one is not muhsan. Rather, the offender of fornication is to be lashed instead of being stoned to death, as his/her case involves a kind of excuse. Thus, the life of the fornicator is spared, yet s/he is to be punished for his/her sin by hurting all his/her body through the severest kind of lashing." (Volume 2, Page 595)

2. Evidence of stoning in the ahadith:

Narrated Ibn 'Abbas: 'Umar said, "I am afraid that after a long time has passed, people may say, "We do not find the Verses of the Rajam (stoning to death) in the Holy Book," and consequently they may go astray by leaving an obligation that Allah has revealed. Lo! I confirm that the penalty of Rajam be inflicted on him who commits illegal sexual intercourse, if he is already married and the crime is proved by witnesses or pregnancy or confession." Sufyan added, "I have memorized this narration in this way." 'Umar added, "Surely Allah's Apostle carried out the penalty of Rajam, and so did we after him."  (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Book #82, Hadith #816)


Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar: The Jews came to Allah's Apostle and told him that a man and a woman from amongst them had committed illegal sexual intercourse. Allah's Apostle said to them, "What do you find in the Torah (old Testament) about the legal punishment of Ar-Rajm (stoning)?" They replied, (But) we announce their crime and lash them." Abdullah bin Salam said, "You are telling a lie; Torah contains the order of Rajm." They brought and opened the Torah and one of them solaced his hand on the Verse of Rajm and read the verses preceding and following it. Abdullah bin Salam said to him, "Lift your hand." When he lifted his hand, the Verse of Rajm was written there. They said, "Muhammad has told the truth; the Torah has the Verse of Rajm. The Prophet then gave the order that both of them should be stoned to death. ('Abdullah bin 'Umar said, "I saw the man leaning over the woman to shelter her from the stones."  (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Book #56, Hadith #829)

3. Evidence of lashing in the ahadith:

The Prophet (peace be upon him) executed the punishment of lashing and banishing (the fornicator), and Abu Bakr (radhia'Allahu 'anhu) executed the punishment of lashing and banishing and (also) 'Umar (radhia'Allahu 'anhu) executed the punishment of lashing and banishing. (At-Tirmidhi 1442 [4/44] and Al-Bayhaqee 16977 [8/389])

The Prophet (peace be upon him) said, "When an unmarried male commits fornication with an unmarried female (they should receive) a hundred lashes and banishment for a year." (Muslim 4890 [6/189])

4. The child of fornication is not to be responsible for the sin of its mother: "The child of Zina is neither condemned nor responsible for the sin of his mother and the one who committed this illicit act with her. They are accountable for this sin and the child is not responsible for what took place based on the statement of Allah Ta’ala:

لها ما كسبت وعليها ما اكتسب...
“..The soul is rewarded for the good which is does and punished for the sin that is has earned…” (2:286)

He also says:

ولا تزر وازرة ورزأخرى...
“No soul shall bear the burden (of sin) of another…” (17:15)

The Permanent Committee for Islaamic Research and Verdicts, Reference: Fataawa al-Lajnah ad-Daa.imah - Vol.20 P.395-396 (http://www.madeenah.com/article.cfm?id=1223)

21 comments:

Salma said...

Oh my goodness, a lot going on here. Well I agree that the child does not bear the sin of her parents.

She said: ‘I realise that I have made a mistake but the punishment is so severe and inevitable that I have had no option but to hide in the UK.’

To make it fair, the Saudis would have to round up all the men as well who are committing adultery and fornication when they go abroad)...the hadiths say men and women, YET, all we hear about is women.

Was she raised a Muslim? I would say it's a definite "yes"...She knows what the Holy Quran says about this. How to reconcile the reality of being a Princess, a Saudi, a woman and a mother(?)

I think I have left you with more questions than answers.

caraboska said...

OK, first of all, she was married when it happened. Although since she was abroad, in principle she did not have access to her husband so that theoretically she should have been treated the way a single person would be.

Whether that is what would actually happen is quite another matter. Honor killing is a reality. And it can happen even for much lesser offenses.

And as for the daughter, everything I've ever read suggests that if she were in KSA, the girl would have no future. No one would marry her, and she would not have any other options open to her either. So maybe just maybe they wouldn't stone her. But even if they didn't, that wouldn't guarantee a thing.

Bottom line: I absolutely do understand why the princess is worried. I don't approve of the death penalty for any reason, so I think she definitely has the right to ask for asylum and do what she can to avoid getting killed and preserve some kind of future for her child.

Tara Umm Omar said...

Salma- Adultery has to be witnessed by at least 4 people while engaged in the act so sometimes it can be hard to prove. When it happens that a woman is involved in an extramarital affair and becomes pregnant, the man gets off scott free while the woman is left to carry and bare the burden of what transpired. Nobody would know what part the man played unless he told someone or someone witnessed it with their own eyes, sah?

Caraboska- Welcome back, long time no see! Islamically, she still considered herself to be married by her account. After all, she kept coming back to her husband in Jeddah and even in the interview still referred to him as her husband. The Princess's mother was sympathetic to her regardless of what she did, I'd hope she or her family would oversee the baby's upbringing.

Chiara- Thanks! I'm glad that you find it more appealing than the Telegraph article alhamdulillah. What a story about your friend's ex! Do you know what happened to the Saudi princess?

I agree with your last statement to Salma in the sense that Islam gave women their full rights but its replaced with cultural/traditions that are passed off as Islam.

For anyone to be convinced that stoning is meted out to the fornicators, you would have to accept the above ahadith on the punishment for it. The Qur'an and ahadith complement each other. Muhammad (peace be upon him) was a walking example of the Qur'an and relayed everything that was revealed to him by Allah. For example, there are some people who believe in Qur'an but not ahadith. The argument put to them is..."How do you know how to pray if you don't accept the ahadith?" Allah ordered Muslims to pray and Muhammad (peace be upon him) came to teach them how exactly to pray to Allah.

Sandy- Welcome to the blog and thank you for commenting. Refer to my last comment to Chiara on the Qur'an and ahadith.

Umar (may Allah be pleased with him) was the third caliph after Abu Bakr (may Allah be pleased with him). If stoning had been abrogated during Muhammad's time (peace be upon him) then Umar wouldn't have insisted that it still be carried out during his time. Re-read what was narrated from him...

Narrated Ibn 'Abbas: 'Umar said, "I am afraid that after a long time has passed, people may say, "We do not find the Verses of the Rajam (stoning to death) in the Holy Book," and consequently they may go astray by leaving an obligation that Allah has revealed. Lo! I confirm that the penalty of Rajam be inflicted on him who commits illegal sexual intercourse, if he is already married and the crime is proved by witnesses or pregnancy or confession." Sufyan added, "I have memorized this narration in this way." 'Umar added, "Surely Allah's Apostle carried out the penalty of Rajam, and so did we after him." (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Book #82, Hadith #816)

To all readers and future commentators on this post: I don't wish to get into a religious debate on FHWS and detract from its main theme/purpose. I posted the Islamic evidence merely to point out the discrepancies in the Telegraph article on lashing/stoning and also to show how the princess's fears of her daughter being stoned are unfounded...at least Islamically. I do not expect all to adopt the same religious beliefs and convictions as I do but I do expect that others will disagree with whatever has been published within this post. A gentle reminder that we should agree to disagree respectfully in line with blogger etiquette.

Tara Umm Omar said...

Chiara- Did his murder ever make it to the news, either in KSA or internationally?

Good to hear that mother and daughter were reunited, a happy ending to a tumultuous story.

During my research, I have seen stoning listed as a punishment in the Saudi law and cases submitted are presided over by the Supreme Judicial Committee. The Saudi Embassy in Washington, DC and the Ministry of Justice both have it up on their websites. I found an interview of Shaykh Luhaidan from as recently as 2007 and he mentioned reviewing stoning cases. However we don't hear very much about stoning, whether its practice is declining or its carried out without announcing it to the public.

Sandy- We obviously have two different viewpoints regarding accepting/rejecting ahadith and I was elaborating on my viewpoint rather than opposing yours. I'm glad we both will not engage in a religious debate to avoid sidetracking from the main issue of the post. In the end, we all seem to agree that the tabloid press was sensationalistic about the baby and that the Princess seems to have exaggerated on this too, to gain asylum after it was rejected the first time.

Thank you!

Sandy said...

I wonder if she hyped up the danger to her baby just to make sure it was well publicized she had one. Babies, one would assume illegitimate ones, are abandoned fairly regularly here- and some die before they are found. Maybe that is what she was afraid of if she came back- that it would "dissapear" into an orphanage or worse.

Now even were they forced to return- her baby is well documented and everyone knows about it. Because I agree- I've never heard of the child being formally or legally punished in the way she seemed to fear.

Also, I totally agree- if she would have considered abortion in the kingdom- why not in the UK? And birth control is readily available everywhere, so it seems to me she wanted the baby.

caraboska said...

Far as I know, abortion is prohibited in Islam except if the mother's life (or health?) is in danger. And two wrongs don't make a right.

Faraz Omar said...

@ Sandy

I'm sorry about your opinion on Hadeeth. I wonder if you've taken the time to research and study this field before coming to the nasty and derogatory conclusion: "I will never believe evidence obtained from a 200 year game- that traveled through many political and social agendas- of "telephone"."

Such a comment not only reflects ignorance but also undermines the preservation of hadith, which by Allah's Grace and Help, generations of scholars devoted their lives to.

I don't understand how a person rejects hadith yet believes in the preservation of the Qur'an?

Doubt and ignorance will lead you nowhere Sandy. The cure for ignorance is knowledge. Learn what the usool of hadith are. Learn how the hadith were preserved and you will be amazed!

Learn your religion.


Read this excellent Introduction to the Sciences of Hadeeth


See this link on the Authority of Sunnah

And also read the book Usool Al-Hadeeth by Bilal Philips (PDF)

Check this link for more resources

A person searching for truth will have no problem in identifying it.

Tara Umm Omar said...

Chiara- You're welcome. I do recall the Sri Lankan news article on the stoning of its country's citizens which gives its source of information as the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. I wonder how that one got out.

Whether the pregnancy was an accident or planned, she sure used it to an advantage.

Sandy- Pregnancy has been known to happen even with birth control methods. Thank you for clarifying your views on ahadith.

Caraboska- You got that right!

Faraz- Welcome back and thank you for your views on the ahadith and listing resources for further reading. Insha'Allah this will not turn into a religious debate between you and Sandy.

As a news reporter based in Saudi Arabia, I'm sure you have done some investigative journalism. I'm also interested in your opinion of whether the Princess exaggerated her story in order to gain asylum or you think her fears are credible.

Hning/Alia- Welcome back and thank you for commenting. Since Adam and Eve, why has mankind always put their emotions/desires before obeying the commands of Allah?

Faraz Omar said...

@ Sandy

I'm sorry for being judgmental. If you have done your research and studies, then I shouldn't have written something that undermines your respect and honor.

But I would like to respectfully remind you that you have also moved into judging me.

I do not have any problem with people holding any opinion because I am not responsible for people. I'm not asking you to bow down before me or anyone. However, I do want to recommend people to the view that I've found to be the truth.

I have not said scholars are infallible prophets. However to simplistically reject the hadith that -- according to one's understanding -- contradicts the Qur'an may not be a very good path to adopt. Muslim scholarship that relied on divine principles over generations will be ignored and made redundant in this process.
What the learned toiled to distinguish and remove concoctions from authentic narrations will be lost.
The One who protected the Qur'an also protected the hadeeth.

I realize the blog's admin doesn't want a debate on hadith. So I won't bring that forth. However, I would just like to remind you that the vast majority of Muslim scholars from very early generations till now have through all their learning held the opinion that is at stark contrast with yours.

I rest my case.

Anonymous said...

Ok, just for the record, I have not ever heard of anyone being stoned in Saudi Arabia, and I also asked my father who assured me that he also never heard of stoning cases. Although the law might be on the books, and it sound harsh, and cruel, in reality it doesn't come to that, because it is simply too hard to prove, as Tara metioned before of having 4 witnesses during the act.

Another small thing in the princess interview that I thought was a little odd, when she said "I also wore the abaya while sleeping at night,’ she says. ‘This is common practice for Saudi women." I don't know of any household where women sleep in their abyas..it just seemed a little bizzare to me.

Tara Umm Omar said...

Anonymous- Thank you for pointing out another discrepancy in the story that escaped me! It sounds so out of the ordinary that I wonder if it was manufactured (by the Princess or Telegraph or both!) to add a little drama to the story. If she really did wear an abayah to bed, I wonder what excuse she gave for it to her husband (in case one night he forgot to neglect her).

Tara Umm Omar said...

Sandy- Seeing as how she was a Princess, I assume that she could have afforded more than one abayah she wore to bed and reserved them only to wear to sleep and not outside in public. And Allah knows best!

Tara Umm Omar said...

Chiara- I meant she wouldn't wear the same (wrinkled) abayah she slept in during the night, outside in public the next day. At least I wouldn't.

Sandy said...

I knew what Umm Omar meant! And I have to say -even though I'm not a princess- if I decide to start sleeping in an abaya- I'll have a specially designated one for sleeping.

Tara Umm Omar said...

Chiara- And a silk abayah to go over them! The Gulf-style abayah has certainly proved to be a convenience for me so many times. I even wore one in the US, preferring it over my Moroccan and Jordanian jalabiyas. It was black and stood out but I found it to be a better fit, i.e. a looser cut and cooler. It was only hot when I stood out in the sun for a long time (which didn't happen very often).

Once I read that an expat here in KSA wore a swimsuit under her abayah! She said that all of the men were smiling at her for some reason. This led me to believe that it may have been a see through material lol.

Sandy- Lol. I've slept in a shoulder abayah AND hijab before! I wouldn't recommend it but hey, if you can still sleep soundly with it on then whatever floats your boat.

srinivas said...

I have some question boiling my mind - people may laugh at my ignorance of the present day world - no problem

whatever the law of land at KSA, it has to be honoured, if that woman has to stay in KSA. law cannot to be changed overnight and for a person.

before getting married to that old man, was she not aware about her marriage?

did she not have any courage tell her parents?

didn't that woman perceive what would be the consequence, if she had a baby from other than husband?

didn't she aware of how not to have a child?

what is the reaction of that gentleman who is the father of that child?

does he not have any responsibility to protect and upbring the child at his place?

why can't she stay out of KSA?

i have many more questions, will put later, if entertained

Ghadeer said...

Hi Tara,

I have applied for permission to marry a non-saudi (US citizen). If, hopefully, I get permission...how do I get a visa for him to come to Saudi for the marriage? We plan on living in the US but my parents insist the marriage be done here.
Do you know how to get a visa an how long that takes?
Thanks!
-Ghadeer

Tara Umm Omar said...

Ghadeer- Welcome to the blog and thanks for commenting. After you get the marriage permission, you will be asked by the Ministry of Interior which Saudi Embassy to send your file to. This would be the country where your husband is residing. Then it is up to him to complete the necessary visa application (family visa) and submit additional documents (such as passport for visa stamp and marriage certificate to be authenticated by Saudi Embassy and medical report). On your part, you will have to go to Ministry of Foreign Affairs with your mahram and apply for a visa for him and once it is approved, you send him this number so that he can write it on his visa application. Pending no problems with your file and no requirement of other documents, it shouldn't take very long. Once he is inside Saudi Arabia, you must go to the jawrazat (Passport Office) and transfer his visa over to an iqamah before it expires (within 3 months). If not then you can extend it however I don't know how long the extensions are and how many extensions you can apply for. This process applies if you are already married before getting the marriage permission and your husband is residing outside of Saudi Arabia.

Now if you receive the marriage permission and he resides outside of Saudi Arabia, you will still request that your file be forwarded to the Saudi Embassy of that respective country. You will have to exit Saudi with your mahram/muharam and get married in that country. Then you have to submit the marriage certificate to the Saudi Embassy to go along with your files and for them to authenticate/stamp it. Your husband applies for the visa to come to Saudi Arabia and thereafter the rest of the process I listed above is to be followed.

If your parents want the marriage to be done here, I think that's a different process totally. Your husband would have to go inquire at the Saudi Embassy of his country if they can give him a visa to travel to Saudi Arabia so that you both can get married there instead of in his country. He should be able to prove that you all have received the marriage permission approval when he approaches them. I think this will help his case better. My other thought is of him getting a business visa (if he has his own business) to Saudi Arabia. When he arrives, you could both go to the marriage court in your city with your mahram/muharam to be married (showing your marriage permission approval to the Shaykh, much like Chiara described in Sid Ahmed's case). However I think this may be circumventing the process and setting you both up for visa/iqamah problems in Saudi Arabia later as has been experienced by Sid Ahmed and his Saudi wife.

Can your parents except for you to be married in your husband's country (civil AND Islamic) and then you get married again with a Walima (as Chiara suggested) afterwards? It would require your parents to compromise.

single4now said...

Had read this post a while back but didn't get a chance to reply. I completely agree with the first comment. For some reason, we only hear of women being punished when it comes to crimes of infidelity. I guess there are 2 reasons for this. One that we feel more sympathy for a woman being punished and second because there are those who are trying to mislead the public about the justice system in Saudi. I have no doubt men are punished as well. Are there any statistics stating more women are punished for infidelity? Zina requires proof and that is having 4 witnesses unless a person willingly accepts their guilt. So, I would think most such cases would be difficult to prove.

It's interesting someone noticed that she sleeps in her abaya. I guess it's a norm for a Saudi princess. Although, I don't see a reason why.

Any update on her situation?

Anonymous said...

I'm just wondering the truth of this story to be honest. This is actually the statement that made me feel the whole story might be made up.

'However, she was able to hide her pregnancy by wearing a loose-fitting head-to-toe abaya cloak.‘I also wore the abaya while sleeping at night,’ she says. ‘

I find this a very HIGHLY unlikely thing to happen. I'm not very social amongst Saudis as much as I used to be, BUT, I certainly know that it is NOT the norm, to wear an abaya accept for when leaving your home or when there are non-mahrams around, and even then it is not normal to do, there are usually what they call here, jalals or long pieces of usually comfortable fabrics to cover with. Let alone a head abaya.

Usually when you wear an abaya and someone enters amongst you, inside a house. It is expected that you are going somewhere or have come from outside. As this is the attire for going outside.

I thought that jalabeyahs or long house dresses familiar to the Saudi & Gulf cultures would be a better explanation to hide her pregnancy. I mean, Why wear an abaya when you could just as easily purchase and wear a long loose fitting house dress? Just doesn't make sense to me.

I usually take these kinds of stories with a grain of salt, as it's hard to know who/what to believe without investigating intensely on a more personal level with the people involved.

Tara Umm Omar said...

Anonymous- Welcome to FHWS and thank you for commenting. It is hard to take a tabloid story seriously what with their reputation for sensationalizing "scandals" to obtain more readership and by extension...more money. So we have to read them with an objective mind while employing our common sense. As Judge Judy said, "If it doesn't make sense then its probably not true!"

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